THE TONY BITTICK INTERVIEW: TEXT OF INTERVIEW WITH BILL HALVERSON
ABOUT THE RECORDING OF 'OHIO' AND THE EVENTS AT KENT STATE:
TB: I'm excited and honored to welcome Mr. Bill Halverson.
Bill how are you sir?
BH: I'm doing quite well, thank you.
TB: When I say I'm honored to have you I mean it. I know that you have been present at a great many legendary occasions in rock 'n' roll history, but I also know most of that time you've been a very silent man. The people I've talked to in telling them that we're going to do this interview are extremely excited to hear from you so thank you for joining us.
HB: Thank you.
TB: Can you tell us Bill to start out, as I've mentioned, you've been in so many prominent occasions yet you've been quiet for so long, can you tell us a little bit about why that is and why we haven't heard very much from you?
BH: I've had a lot to say and haven't had the right opportunity and I've seen so many of my peers misquoted and half-truths and it just seemed better... I'm very proud of my relationship with those four guys, and with some of the other people I've worked with and I want to keep it that way. So unless it's some honesty about how it was I just as soon not say much at all.
TB: Understood. For those people who are fans of Crosby, Stills and Nash or Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, the name Bill Halverson is in fact a household name, for those people who may not be fans, let's tell them a little about who you are, your relationship... your spot on the team so to speak, and I'd also like to talk about some of the other people you've worked with briefly.
BH: Oh I started with Crosby, Stills and Nash on their first album. I had done one demo of a song called "49 Reasons" with Stephen prior to the CSN sessions and I'd done one demo with David Crosby where he and Peter Tork were producing a female artist, Judy Mayan. We had done one session with her. So I had met them, and also I'd been part of a team that recorded Monterrey Pop so I had seen them there and had other contact, but my first recording with them was at their first recording as a group.
TB: And what did your duties include?
BH: I was the engineer. And it was back in the days where we didn't have assistants and you'd clean the ashtrays and set up, and did it, and broke down when they left... I was actually fairly new at it when I got to work with them. I'd done a lot of live recording at the studio that I worked at Wally Heider’s, but it was one of the first albums that I'd gotten to do all the way through...the first Crosby, Stills and Nash record.
TB: So you were there for the very first CSN record?
HB: First night. "Suite Judy: Blues Eyes", top to bottom. One take. And put the vocals on it. And I think we did that that and "You Don't have to Cry" the first night. With vocals.
TB: Wow.
TB: You've promised us further interviews, and I know that I have a head full of questions on just that evening, but the reason we're here together tonight is remembering the events that happened May 4, of 1970. The Kent State shootings. Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young as the result of a picture in Life Magazine, got together and wrote a song that's now beyond famous called "Ohio".
BH: Right.
TB: You were present in the studio when that was recorded.
HB: I was.
TB: Can you take us back and tell us a little bit Bill about what was going on both kind of in society and professionally for you at the time?
HB: Well I was fairly oblivious to society at that time. I had been in England with Stephen working on his first solo record and we'd spent some time there and come back to the States. And first worked at Heiders on the solo record and then worked at The Record Plant on his solo record and at that point and time during the day he was doing some rehearsal with the Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young guys over on a Warner sound stage and then in the evenings he'd come over to The Record Plant and we'd do overdubs and work on the solo project.
TB: So were you physically on May 4th, were you in Europe or were you here in the States.
HB: I think we were back in the States.
TB: Do you remember what your first recollection was or the first news you received of the event?
HB: Just seein' it on television and just seeing the horrible tragedy of... there's just not much sense in it.
TB: Can you remember what you were thinking at the time? Did you talk to members of the band?
HB: Stephen and I didn't talk much. He'd come in and if he got out a guitar I'd put out a guitar mic and if he wanted to sing we put up a vocal mic and we were both obsessed with making that record and when I was in the studio working I pretty much had blinders on and didn't watch much news and do much but work.
TB: Wow. So it's 1970...
HB: Yes...
TB: Crosby, Stills Nash has released their first album...
HB: Right...
TB: And Déjà Vu has been recorded...
HB: Yes...
TB: And possibly released at this time...
HB: Yes...
TB: What's your first involvement in the song Ohio?
BH: I'm at the studio setting up for Stephen for the evening session and I got a call from I think one of the roadies that was over at the sound stage and he said there's been a change in plans and the band's got this song that they wanna do together and so set up for the whole band we're all gonna come out. They're rehearsing it right now. They're going to come on in a couple of hours and we're going to record it.
TB: And at this time you have no idea what the song may or may not be...
BH: I have no idea whatsoever except I was pretty used to changes having worked with them quite a few hours on both Déjà Vu and the first album. So I set up for the whole band. We were at Record Plant at studio A and... back in the 70s the rooms were... we call 'em now sort of dead rooms. There was a lot of carpet and a lot of padding... a lot of soundproofing and then a room off to the side that was pretty live like if you would do strings or wanted a live drum sound or something you had a live room. I set up using both areas of the studio and was ready for when the roadies got there and started bringing in amps and the drums and everything. We got set up and got ready for the band.
TB: Do you remember at that point who was in the band exactly.
HB: My recollection is that it was Fuzzy Samuels who we'd been recording in England with Stephen's solo stuff... I thought it was still Dallas, but I think Dallas might have left the band and Johnny Barbada had joined them. In listening to it the last couple of days... I can't tell. I suspect it's probably Barabada because I know he then replaced Dallas at some time right in that area.
TB: How is that...listening to that song for you today.
HB: It's... it's, it's just... In the early 80's I lived in Cincinnati for about five years and there was this one rock 'n' roll station WEBN that every year on May 4th would just play that song a couple of times an hour and it was really great. I heard it more in the 80's in Ohio than I did in the 70's living in LA. And it's still great to hear.
TB: Can you take us back to the, take us back to the recording process. Was it one day, two days, a couple of hours...
BH: They probably got there 6:00, something like that, and we set up. Live vocal mics, they had a little drum booth and it wasn't live enough for the guys so we opened the doors to the drum booth so the drums were just sort of in an alcove. And set up their...pretty much their stage amps, and with vocal mics and they fiddled around for a while and I don't recall us doing more than two or three takes of it with live vocal and live harmonies and everybody chiming in. And I was used to recording them all in the room together. We'd done "Almost Cut My Hair that way... we'd done a number of songs...with everybody playing and singing together and they were used to me doing it and I was used to doing it that way.
TB: Bill do you remember any of the conversation between the band members at the time? Or even... I don't expect quotations but even the mood or the atmosphere?
BH: The mood was just very intense. I mean when they come into a room... I've been around those personalities for a long time, and the four of them take over a room. They are four distinct personalities and any one of the four is quite overpowering and together they're just a joy to be with. It's just a hoot to see them interact. And they were bent on getting it right and were on a mission. And when they're on a mission they're fun.
TB: Could you tell... I hate to be cliché and say "was there magic in the air"... but could you tell that there was something about that song... you say they were on a mission but was it obvious or were you just so focused on everything else...
BH: Well it was obvious. But no more obvious than some of the other days I've spent with them when they're on a mission. And when they're on a mission and on the same page, they're great.
TB: Can you talk to us a little bit about the technical background, the recording process maybe. I know there are some audiophiles out there chomping at the bit and would really give their left arms to trade places with you and go back to that time. For their benefit can you tell us a little about the equipment and the process?
BH: Well it was pre-automation. It was an old Quad-Eight console, an eight-track console that was modified where you could probably do 16 at one time without using... with just direct patches. We had a rented 3M machine from Heiders, probably a 79, 24-track.
TB: So you're at The Record Plant...
BH: We're at The Record Plant...
TB: And you're using some of Wally Heiders equipment...?
BH: His machines... yeah just because I really liked his machines and rented them all the time to bring over there. And he had enough extras where he did have a good rental business. Amp mics...I've always used Shure 57s... it was back in the days when I still used SM-57s on the snare and on toms and on snare and on high hats. I had a couple of Noymans on the overheads... it was after I discovered the D12 for kicks so probably the D12 on kicks... and vocal mics... I probably had some Shures just because the amps were in the room and I needed more separation. So I probably wasn't using Neumans on the vocals just because it was loud and everybody was in the room together.
TB: Do you recall having a first impression on hearing this song in relation to what it was about?
BH: No. When I'm the engineer, I'm more intent on documenting what they're doing and making sure we get it to tape and that it's useable and as far as paying attention to lyric and paying attention to the music that usually comes for me quite a bit later.
TB: And at what point did that come for you? Do you have a remembrance of a moment?
BH: No. Probably later in the evening because we finished recording it in a few takes and then it's "okay, let's get in here and mix it, let's get it done," so then there's no automation so there's four of them and me. So there's ten hands for 24 tracks or however many we used.
TB: And all four musicians stayed in the room and helped mix?
BH: Oh yeah we all got in there and pretty much just mixed it together. Everybody has their input and there's no referees and it's just... you get on with it.
TB: <Laughing>
BH: It certainly taught me to work with other bands, I'll tell you that.
TB: I was gonna say who called the penalties.
BH: You know...
TB: Self-called penalties...
HB: Whoever writes it gets the final say.
TB: I see.
BH: That's sort of the bottom line.
TB: The story that David has written and that I've heard is that he saw the picture in Life magazine and pretty much gave it to Neil Young as something kind of a challenge or a spur to write something and he did. Is that the story that you're familiar with?
BH: I've heard that story and I've read that story and all I know is he came in with the song and they had rehearsed it. I love the way the B-side got to be. And the B-side is "Find the Cost of Freedom". While they were listening to the mix and finishing up the mix they said "we don't have a B-side, we need a B-side for this."
So they had been rehearsing also "Find the Cost of Freedom" because they did that at the close of the show. So I went out and set up four chairs so they'd be knee to knee sitting facing each other and set up four vocal mics and a guitar mic for Stephen because he was gonna play guitar. Once I was set up they went out there and sat knee to knee with the four vocal mics and Stephen started playing guitar and then they started singing and sang it through. And before they could come in I rewound the tape, put it on another five tracks, and rolled it again, and they heard the guitar so they knew what was going on and waited for the vocal to come in and Stephen played along with himself, a little on guitar, played the little fills and stuff...
TB: Finally an accompanying guitar player he can agree with <laughing>
BH: Right... and they doubled it and in fifteen minutes we had "Find the Cost of Freedom".
TB: Wow.
HB: You know. We went in and mixed that and I suspect we were done by midnight, one o'clock with the whole thing. And heard acetates on the radio in LA within days.
TB: Wow.
BH: It's the fastest I've ever seen a record company work.
TB: That was my next question. So the album is cut and mixed, virtually within hours or at least a day.
BH: The single. Right, right.
TB: The single. And it's funny because you mention a B-side and I think when I first bought records I would only buy 45s. And I actually had to take a second and register what you meant by a B-side.
BH: Uh huh.
TB: I don't even know if I have any 45s left.
BH: Those were the old days.
TB: Was there an advantage to cutting records that way... to cutting 45 singles.
BH: I have no idea. I mean I don't know. I basically was hired to do albums and a lot of the rock 'n' roll stuff we did the labels were trying to find things to put out as singles. There were certainly a lot of people that just cut singles and went for radio play.
TB: So that was one of the few 45s you ever did then.
BH: Well it was one of the ones that was specifically done for 45s.
TB: Understood.
HB: We certainly... from "Love the One Your With" to "Teach You Children"... there were things that were brought from albums that became good singles.
TB: Bill were you aware of what the process was after your portion was done or were you pretty much out of it?
HB: I know we air freighted tapes to New York and I also know, well I don't know, as I recall we had some acetates cut in LA and Atlantic in LA got it on the radio there and as fast as they could they got it mastered and pressed in New York.
TB: Do you recall hearing it on the radio for the first time.
BH: No. I do recall that AM wouldn't play it and it was very controversial that AM wouldn't play it and FM, the underground, all the FM stations started playing it...
TB: I was going to say, at the time AM was the thing.
BH: And they just... it never did get on AM that I knew of...
TB: Wow...
BH: But FM... and it got up in the 30s of so just with FM play and at that point FM was pretty underground and AM was the deal. But they tried to ban it.
TB: It's possible, and this may be just one man's opinion, that that song above and beyond anything that CSN or CSNY has done really kind of...kind of changed the landmark. I don't know of anybody that can think of Kent State without thinking of that song.
HB: Right.
TB: Did you know that at the time.
HB: Not at the time no. I was just a... after that evening I was just another listener.
TB: And how about now reflecting back. We're doing this tribute and memorial of May 4th and we expect to release to the Web site either shortly before or on that day... when you look back on the song and the difference it's made...you can't hear... you can't see anything basically on Vietnam without, you know, hearing "Ohio" in the background.
HB: Well it's... they've done a couple of those. "For What It's Worth" with Stephen, it's, it's a... or "Military Madness" from Graham. They have something to say and when they put they put their minds to it, they can be a voice for us.
TB: I might get myself in trouble with this next question, but you know, in hindsight, is there anything that you would have done different or you know like after you heard it played those first couple of times you thought "Oh man I wished we have..."
BH: I'm pretty good at doing it as it comes and letting go of it. I've made so many mistakes over the years and you know we can do a whole interview on my mistakes that got by.
TB: <laughing>
HB: And you know... if you sit with it, you'll go nuts. You've just sorta got to let it go and I'm really proud of it and I'm proud that it got out there and Find the Cost of Freedom still gives me goose bumps when they come in singing. It's just, you know.
TB: Did you get a chance to see them on the Jay Leno show?
HB: No. I've certainly seen them do it live a number of times.
TB: Bill is anything else you'd like to share with us about the experience?
HB: Just thanks for letting me share this with you. I've enjoyed it.
TB: You're very welcome and we look forward to talking to you again.
HB: All right.
TB: Ladies and Gentlemen Mr. Bill Halverson
HB: Thanks.
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